What would a crash be like?

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:24:12 PST

What you seem to believe is that you much make a choice. And, if you have tried what seems to be everything and found nothing to alleviate the fear, you may believe nothing will work, and you simply have to choose.

You don't have to choose. We can stop the fear.

Many people who don't fear death but fear "falling through the air for minutes on end and knowing the plane is going to crash" yearn for flight with a doctor who would hook them up to an I.V., use medication to knock them out for the flight, and wake them up at the destination . . . just the same as for an operation.

You don't have to have a doctor. You don't have to have an I.V. The "meds" you need are produced by the brain. The "med" is oxytocin. When oxytocin is being produced, the fear system is shut down. All it takes is this: 1. we find a memory of a moment in your life when oxytocin was being produced; 2. we list the things that happen on a routine flight and the things that you worry...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Azania) — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:00:54 PST

Katie, I can completely relate to your "need to know what it will be like". I too don't fear death. I just fear falling through the air for minutes on end and knowing the plane is going to crash. So, I can understand what you're feeling. That said, I also know that I have serious control issues - the need to know every detail, is a need for control. These are the facts: I can only control my attitude, and nothing else. This is what I need to accept. I simply have to focus on building a positive attitude towards flying and towards life in general. Any other fears and concerns is a waste of my energy, as I really have no control over what's going to happen to me. The only control and choice I have is to either get on that plane or not. Either way you'll have to sacrifice something. If you don't get on the plane, you sacrifice the opportunity to travel. If you do get on the plane, you sacrifice the freedom of fear. I love traveling and I've decided that traveling is more...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:49:55 PST

Maybe I should point out how deep into imagination this is. "What does it feel like to crash?" I am beginning to think that what is in play here is a way to distance from real living by imagining.

When people get on a plane, often afraid, they think they need to go into imagination to escape from fear of the flight. They end up, unfortunately, creating such terrible imagination of what - they think - MAY be about to happen . . . and yes, MAY equals one actuality in 8,000,000 (using last years worldwide figures).

Now, let's get real. If something happens only once in 8,000,000 flights, wouldn't you really be better off experiencing the flight than experiencing imagination of disaster?

Do you get the point? What is going on here is attempts to escape real life because real life is too frightening, but it works out that this is "jumping out of the (not even warm) frying pan into the fire", that is jumping ones awareness away...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Adventurer) — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:01:25 PST

Another thing that comes to mind here......upon finishing the thread. I can understand Katie's original question. I too would like to know what it would be like if i were in a plane that crashed.....

but i get on a train everyday and don't need to know what it would be like if that crashed.....yet the consequences for me could be just as horrific. I go on the london underground at times and don't think too much about being caught up in a fire under there.....

a lot of life is about knowing you will usually get through the situation comfortably....I think that comes when you face the fears.

I guess it's a balance. Some facts are really useful to have....

but equally it's important to take on board how the mind works. Focussing on the disaster can mentally be relieving.....the concious mind gets it's questions answered.....but the emotional mind just takes in the images and the negativity. Since the emotional mind is the...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Adventurer) — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:38:50 PST

I haven't got all the way through this thread....and i am new here but i just want to express surprise at two things.

1) How disrespectful some people can be when they are actually using someone else's website!

2) How tolerant those who are trying to help can be in the face of it!

I cannot believe the suggestion that this site is merely designed to sell Captain Tom's programme. I work in sales and believe me there's not a lot of selling going on here! There seems to be a genuine wish to help.

Okay i'm new here, and i haven't finished this thread....but just so surprised! Perhaps the reason the 'helpers' on here are so tolerant is that they realise that some people just have very little awareness of the various types of therapy that are out there. I've got a background in psychology and am well read in this area so i can see that there really is a genuine attempt to help and in fact Captain Tom appears to be...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:31:44 PST

Skeptic, I think you meant he had you doing what I advise AGAINST (rather than again).

But thanks for the report on the therapist. It just shows how misunderstood fear of flying, and how to treat it, is.

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Skeptic) — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:07:45 PST

Last year, I saw a behavioral therapist specifically for fear of flying. He had me doing exactly what Capt Tom advises again: imagining the worst. My assignments were to imagine the worst possible scenario and not react physically -- breath deep, etc. I could go on and on about the detailed horror I was able to conjure, but the point is I was actively imagining my own "getting dead." It did not work. Before my flight last week, I did the Rapid Relief and I was F*R*E*A*K*E*D out, until I got on the plane, met the pilot and felt, inexplicably, safer than ever before.

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Caro) — Tue, 19 May 2009 06:23:22 PST

I identify hugely with Katie's questions on what a crash would be like....but judging by the repsonses I am aware again that there are no guarantees in life and that there can be no reassurance that crashing is not as hideous and ghastly as it is in our imagination. this leaves me with feelings of dread. I accept that life is not safe but the idea of knowing that you are going to crash and burn and plummeting from so high up in the sky is tom e pure terror itself.I just read the link to the TWA crash as sugested and it has made me feel so much worse. I try not to read any media articles on plane crashes as they are so damaging and I am wondering now if I should avoid all articles on plane crashes as they clearly are too truthful and wont make me feel better in fact I feel 100 times worse. I simply cannot get my head around the fact that I try so hard to tell myself that planes dont plummet they descend, planes are so safe they have back up systems...etc..etc.. yet the TWA plane...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Fri, 01 May 2009 13:42:05 PST

Sounds good, Katie. Also use the 5-4-3-2-1. If you don't have that, email me and I'll send it to you. tom@fearofflying.com

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (katie) — Fri, 01 May 2009 07:53:36 PST

Thanks for the additional info, Capt Tom & OneAnt. I found out after posting on Taking Flight that in a total engine failure-a jet at cruising altitude would simply glide-it wouldn't fall from the sky-that was wonderful to read about. That is the one crash scenario I most feared-that simple fact has done me a world of good. I am just not going to imagine all the other crazy ways something could happen-because, well, it won't! Knowing that a huge jet can glide without power has really eased my anxiety and I don't feel as if I will have trouble flying in June as I previously anticipated-we'll see. I will let you all know how it goes, and if I do have trouble I will be back and will look more seriously at completing the program. I've got some good music already loaded-a special "flying" mix, and I will be sure to pack some delicious reading material.

Thanks much!
Katie

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:24:18 PST

Well said, OneAnt. I do want to address the question of what it is like to crash. Though, as I said, examining the question once will not do any damage and repeatedly entertaining the question will cause difficulty (repeated imagination produces a memory of the imagination, when then causes what was originally imagination to come to mind as a memory, and thus has the "look and feel" of fact, which makes it very hard to dismiss as mere imagination), there is obviously some curiosity in all of us about what it is like to die this way, or that way, or what it is like to be in a certain situation. If we had no curiosity about what some experience is like that we haven't had, I guess there would be no novels, plays, or movies.

Until someone comes back from the dead and tells us what it is like, we are all in the dark. And yes, there are people who have had near-death experiences who have written about it.

But I'm not at all sure we are really talking...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (OneAnt) — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:10:04 PST

I'd like to add something in response to Katie's last post.

This is a fear of flying forum. If you came simply to chat about flying in general and get some facts--not really about the fear aspect--a fear-of-flying site is probably not the best place. There are many very good and expansive forums that discuss general flying facts. Head over to a frequent flier site. You get people flying 100k+ miles year, and they discuss just about every aspect you can think of.

When people come here, the members of this board assume they want to get over their fear, regardless of the severity.

Occasionally, there are people who just want to be heard, get attention, whine, complain, and generally act out the "woe is me" attitude. You can always tell who they are because they backpeddle, make up excuses, or just simply flee when actually confronted with the opportunity to rid themselves of the fear.

You asked "What would a crash be...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:06:24 PST

First, Katie, we run a program that works, not just with mild cases, but with severe cases. No other program can help people with more than mild difficulty. That being the case, how up-to-date the fashions might be is trivial and superficial.

Second, the counseling session videos were shot in 2004.

Third, the videos on-board the plane were shot years ago when we did live courses at airports. We stopped doing airport courses when it became evident that clients did far better when they could view the course at home repeatedly, when they didn't have to fly a "graduation flight" (that caused so much anxiety people had a hard time taking in course material), and when we provided one-to-one counseling to each client (not possible in a group course).

Since the time the in-flight video was shot, we developed the strengthening exercise, the exercise that sets up automatic control of feelings when flying and stops high anxiety and panic. So, though...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (katie) — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:03:02 PST

Yes, I can understand that, and more power to them-I'm so glad they they found something that will work for them! I found Steve's post to be offensive since I did not come anywhere close to saying that I was in grave distress and would "do anything to get help" and was called attention seeking. I guess wanting to chat on a forum about various things (that IS what a forum is for, yes??) is now seen as attention seeking. Hmm. Anyway, I am definitely greatful for the responses I did get, but am still not satisfied. I do have one unanswered question-the flight that is taken in one of the videos-is it real or simulated? Can you tell me more about that when you have time-I *can* see that being a benefit to me.

Peace,
Katie

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW) — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:03:27 PST

Katie, it seems to me really paradoxical that with all of support people have offered to you here on this series of posts that you would look at this as a sales job. If people are telling you to do the program, it is because they know it is amazing. If people are telling you that are saying that because they care.

Also, if you spend some time on the site, you will see that the majority of people on this forum have not done the SOAR program. It is, however, the case that the people who have done SOAR are generally enthusiastic. They don't need to come here. They are flying fine, but they remember how it felt; they want to help.

But many here are people who have never done the program and they offer each other tips. They also get tips from people who have done the program, perhaps because when someone comes here and asks for help, if they are sincere in both their intense distress and in their strong desire for help, it makes no sense to any of us when they...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (katie) — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 05:49:43 PST

Thanks, Steve. I will not be ordering the program based on how helpful I found the free video to be. From what I can tell from other posters the chat/forum feature of this site is what really helped them, not necessarily completing the program. I am not so far gone in my fear that I will be cancelling my flight, or unable to fly so the fact that the tickets were expensive doesn't matter to me-it's not going to be money wasted. Seems like the forum was designed more to sell the program, not be a place for fearful fliers to talk-so goodbye, everyone-thanks, and happy flying!

Take care,
Katie

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (Capn Steve) — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:27:59 PST

Katie --

Um -- why do you describe the people depicted in the SOAR video counseling sessions as "outdated?"

I've seen the videos myself, and they looked pretty contemporary to me.

<>

OK, look -- you really will have to make some choices here. But given your previously stated concerns, I...

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (botfish) — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:18:49 PST

As soon as I knew my dates, I booked my flights. My dad lives in Milan so that is a frequent trip. I feel safer in the bigger planes even though I know they are all safe. I think it is my claustrophobia coming into play there. I hate feeling cramped. You do what you think will help. Regardless it sounds like you are going and it will be great!

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (katie) — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:58:24 PST

Good analogy. I am having trouble spending $300 for this, especially when I can get a new release for $20 bucks. I don't believe 3 hours of watching someone talk about why flying is safe will help me. I can see myself struggling with doing the exercises...but taking a flight on screen from the cockpit (is it real or simulated?) would be great. That's only $150. But again, $150 for a few dvds? It hurts me, oneant! That's cutting into my spending $$ while in Italy...I guess I have to decide if having a "nice" flight to Italy vs. an anxious, but barable flight is worth $300.00? That's a lot of limoncellos!

How old are most planes, holy crap? I'm flying a 747 out and 767 back, United, and some smaller planes from Frankfurt to Venice, Milan to Warsaw (those don't bother me in the slightest, though-just the big jets going way up, up, up). Did you dally before buying?

Re: What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (OneAnt) — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:54:49 PST

The fearful are usually skeptical. "Nothing so far has worked, why should I believe this will", right?

Those "outdated" videos are probably no older than a lot of the planes you've flown in. Sounds up to date to me. Remember chemistry class? Those projector reel videos from 1955 talking about exo- and endothermic reactions? Their age had nothing to do with their accuracy.

What would a crash be like?

feeds@kickapps.com (katie) — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:44:03 PST

Hello, I'm new here. Ever since my son was born (19 mos ago) I have had some trouble flying. I've never really enjoyed it, but now I'm starting to believe I am going to panic on my next flight (Italy from Chicago in June). I can get on a plane just fine, and I can act like nothing is wrong but my palms are sweaty, and I'm sitting there listening very carefully to any sound that signals impending danger. What I fear about flying is what a crash experience would be like. In order to cope with things in my life that make me anxious I like to know worst case scenario-that tends to ease my anxiety when I come to grips with what the most awful thing would be in a situation. I want to discuss what a plane crash would be like. I know there are many variables, and I need to discuss them all. How long would a plane take to hit the ground fom 35K feet? I...