Why am I Freaking for Nothing?????

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janeflyingagain

Why am I Freaking for Nothing?????

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Posts: 11

(05/03/08 20:07:08)

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I havent posted in ages because I am pretty much over my FOF. I came to this board a LONG time ago now at least 5 or 6 years ago now maybe longer. I wouldnt be flying if it wasnt for this board.
I had been living the past 4 years in the England so have made numerous trans- atlantic flights probably over 20. I still dont love flying. But I am ok with it, especially the ORD to LHR route. I guess it helps I know it so well now and the spots where the usual turbulence happens.
We now moved back to the US this past summer. I would love to take a plane to see my family in Chicago. I am in St Louis so its not even an hour flight and I cant do it. Last time I went to visit I took the train. I totally chicken out on booking a flight. I cant figure out why I cant bring myself to do it. I think it might have to do with the smaller plane. The last time I was in a small plane it was during high wind warnings and we were the last plane that was allowed to take off from the airport. All other flight were cancelled after ours and it was pure hell on that flight. I am not even going to describe it b/c I dont want to scare anyone. I think also too I am not to keen to go on an MD80 which seems to be the most common aircraft flying out of STL. I have heard horror stories about them. But than again I think to myself its only about a 45 minute flight its not a big deal. I much rather be over land than the ocean any day flying. I guess I think Iam trying to see if others on the board were fine with flying than all of the sudden wham you hit a hurdle?

Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW

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Posts: 2227

(05/03/08 21:22:42)

My view is that each "what if" thought causes on shot of stress hormones. One shot is enough to take you, on a scale of zero to ten, from zero to two. But then, a second "what if" right after the first one, takes you from two to four, and the next from four to six.

So the place you are now is due to one or both of two things: 1. a larger collection of "what ifs" than you used to have; 2. by running some of them, they are running more automatically and with less time between one and the next. The result is more stress hormones in a short period of time and thus more anxiety, as the hormones drive you up, up, up toward panic.

So far as I know, it doesn't get better on its own. It only will be better if you STOP that sequence in which one "what if" starts the domino effect, and the domino effect causes more anxiety than you can handle.

What we do in the SOAR program is teach you an exercise (and lead you through practice of it on the video) that (in a few days) gets in the way of the sequence, breaks it up, sends "what if" thoughts off in another direction.

If you want to get started, take a look at www.fearofflying.com/store (or if you have a video iPod, www.fearofflyingdownloads.com).

Capn Steve

MD-80s

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Posts: 478

(05/04/08 16:36:32)

Hi Jane --

I am a Captain flying MD-80s for American Airlines.

I am NOT suicidal.

Not sure what all "horror stories" you have heard about them. Actually, many passengers like them. Coach is 2-3, rather than 3-3. The engines are mounted in the rear of the airplane, so the last few rows are not the quietest. But, forward of about Row 26, the noise level is pretty low.

MD-80s have had a lot of bad press recently, regarding wire bundling in the wheel wells. This was not a result of any incident or accident, but rather an audit conducted by the FAA. (And, the FAA, it appears to me, was trying to save face in the wake of its embarrassment regarding the Southwest Airlines fiasco.)

The MD-80 is an advanced version of the DC-9, which has been flying safely and dependably since the 1960s.

Cheers.

Cap'n Steve

WontFlyEver

Exactly Who's In Charge At AA?

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Posts: 1

(05/08/08 10:32:56)

An American Airlines executive told the <i>Miami Herald</i>,''This captain did exactly what we want our captains to do,'' they wrote.

Excuse me? American wants its captains to ignore the sound of an explosion coming from the aircraft? The captain should be fired. He should have immediatley landed. He must have had a hot date in Paris.

Passengers can endure crowded, dirty cabines, lousy in-flight service doled out by surly flight attendants, schedules that could win the Pulitzer Prize for fiction. They cannot (and should not have to) endure -- perhaps not even survive -- American's neglect of basic safety principles.

As a long-time reader of this board, I've seen Capt. Tom write frequently how much safer it is to fly unionized airlines. Isn't American unionized? How was this particular captain acting responsible? It's why I don't trust people who maintain or operate aircraft, regardless of how many FOF courses I've taken.

WontFlyEver

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Posts: 2

(05/08/08 10:36:01)

Since someone raised the question of American Airlines and MD-80s, it begs someone to ask: Who's actually in charge at American Airlines? It doesn't seem as if anyone is.

Last month, it's entire fleet of MD-80 aircraft were grounded by the FAA for safety checks and maintenance violations. Yesterday, a pilot on a flight that just took off from Dalles en route to Paris was told by members of his flight crew of what sounded like an explosion. Rather than returning to Dallas -- about 15 minutes behind the plane -- to have the problem checked, he opts to risk the lives of everyone on board by continuing to fly to Paris instead of returning to Dallas.

An American Airlines executive told the Miami Herald,''This captain did exactly what we want our captains to do,'' they wrote.

Excuse me? American wants its captains to ignore the sound of an explosion coming from the aircraft? The captain should be fired. He should have immediatley landed. He must have had a hot date in Paris.

Passengers can endure crowded, dirty cabines, lousy in-flight service doled out by surly flight attendants, schedules that could win the Pulitzer Prize for fiction. They cannot (and should not have to) endure -- perhaps not even survive -- American's neglect of basic safety principles.

As a frequent and long-time reader of this board, I've seen Capt. Tom write frequently how much safer it is to fly unionized airlines. Isn't American unionized? How was this particular captain acting responsible? It's why I don't trust people who maintain or operate aircraft, regardless of how many FOF courses I've taken.

janeflyingagain

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Posts: 12

(05/09/08 14:29:54)

I just wanted to thank the 2 Captains for their replies firstly. Secondly, I just want to say to WontFlyEver that American Airlines has nothing to do with my post. It could be Air India for all I care. My point being that I cant get on a short haul flight due to the fact that generally airlines use their older planes for shorter flights. Where as I have been flying for the pass 7 years Internationally only. They typically use newer planes and bigger planes. I have flown a number of times with American overseas and besides the always rude FA's and the crap food. I have never ever felt unsafe in any of their aircrafts.
I ve had few people tell me about the state the MD-80's were in well used as they put it. Also I had people tell me about a few bad experiences while in the air. I personally have never been on one before but where I am at that is the aircraft of choice it seems. Just to add if it was a ER Jet I wouldnt feel the joy either having to go up in that thing. Now give me a 767 or 777 and I am good as gold but its just not going to happen where I live.

OneAnt

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Posts: 634

(05/09/08 21:43:38)

The MD80 is an excellent aircraft. The flight cancellations were due to the FAA flexing muscle and NOT a safety factor. It would be like someone telling you that you had better have all the square-bottom glasses in the top shelf of the dishwasher perfectly square to the sides of the machine. If you turn them 20 degrees off, it won't affect how clean they get, but that's the mandate so suck it up.

Their cleanliness and perceived age is FAR less than that of AA's 757's. I absolutely HATE First class on the 757, and the plane just looks tired and old overall. I don't feel unsafe in the slightest, but it sure sucks compared to the MD80.

Poor service and crap food: I think AA recently has made some very good steps forward. I've had a majority of First Class flights serve pre-departure drinks (as opposed to a minority in the past), and two recent flights in First the FA actually came by with the seating chart and addressed each one of us by Mr/Mrs OurName when asking about meal and drink choices once airborne. As far as I'm concerned, and I consider myself to be a frequent flier, I'm very happy with the service on AA at this point.

Now, Wontflyever, it's time to address the missing panel on the AA Paris-bound flight from DFW. My gut reaction is that the pilot should have returned instantly to DFW, regardless of the fact that he would have had to dump a LOT of fuel over Texas to do it. That said, I, personally, don't know enough about the situation to make a final call one way or the other. If you do, I'd be very interested for you to post links to what you know, because you sure have a cut-and-dried opinion. And in my experience, those kind of opinions can only come from knowing ALL the facts.

Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW

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Posts: 2233

(05/10/08 14:11:51)

Re: "American wants its captains to ignore the sound of an explosion coming from the aircraft? The captain should be fired. He should have immediatley landed. He must have had a hot date in Paris."

If you need to try to prove that you are right to never fly, you are free to try to do it here. But any of the pilots who post here will explain why the reasoning you are using makes no sense to people who understand how flying works.

Any modern airliner is completely instrumented; if there is anything wrong with the plane that would make it wise to land, it will show up on the instruments. When there is a noise, we check. And since our instruments tell us everything we need to know about the plane, if there is a problem of enough important that we need to land, the instruments will show it.

There STILL could be something abnormal, but whatever it is is not a reason to land. If the instruments don't show anything abnormal about the plane THAT HAS TO DO WITH SAFETY of flying, then there isn't a problem that deals with safety of flight.

The ONLY problem a missing panel could have caused was an increase in fuel consumption. It's like your car. If you have a sunroof, if you open it, you get SLIGHTLY less miles-per-gallon (and some noise). But the increase in fuel consumption is so small it isn't significant. In any case, fuel consumption is tracked throughout the flight and if the consumption is significant, THEN the question of landing might be a consideration. In this case, the missing panel really didn't cause a problem.

Though it may seem shocking to hear about this panel, that kind of thing is not unusual. Panels where mechanics need access are frequently opened. Thus, they have fasteners which can be quickly unlocked. Over time, the fasteners may develop wear. Usually, of course, this does not cause a panel to leave the airplane when the airstream passes over it, but once in a while a panel does come off. It makes the news, sometimes, but it isn't a safety problem for the plane -- though it might be for someone on the ground.

That being the case, the best protection you can get to avoid having a problem with a panel coming off is to be on the plane - or some plane - when it happens, instead of on the ground. Sorry that that sounds like a smart ass remark, but it is actually true. If you stop your daily routine and get on a plane, you protect yourself (that is, provided you drive five to ten miles a day; 5.4 urban miles or 10.8 interstate miles equals the fatality risk of a flight). If you drive more than that a day, you are safer in the air than staying home.

Capn Steve

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Posts: 482

(05/13/08 14:33:33)

Perhaps this company e-mail sent to all flight crewmembers will help to shed some light on the recent DFW-CDG incident.

It was not a matter of the Captain "ignoring the sound of an explosion," as has been sensationally expressed.

In fact, he did gather information from all available sources before making his decision to continue to Paris. And -- that's exactly what we're supposed to do, not react precipitously or hysterically.

Won'tFlyEver -- well, perhaps you should not fly ever. You seem to have a penchant for jumping to conclusions without a calm, dispassionate, look at the facts of the case. "Captain should be fired." Excuse me, but that's a bunch of horse shit. If you truly distrust us professional crewmembers or maintenance personnel that much, then by all means, please, do yourself (and us) a big favor by staying far, far, away.

Steve


07MAY08/0848

TO - ALL PILOTS     RE - FLIGHT WITH MISSING PANEL
YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD SOME RUMORS ABOUT A 767 DFW-CDG FLIGHT   
THAT CONTINUED TO CDG AFTER A PANEL DEPARTED THE A/C ON CLIMB-
OUT. TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT, THE CREW, INCLUDING THE FB WHO
WAS IN THE CABIN, HEARD A NOISE AND FELT A SHORT-LIVED VIB-
RATION JUST AFTER PASSING 10,000 FT. THE CAPTAIN TREATED THE
INCIDENT IN A VERY PROFESSIONAL MANNER AND CONSULTED WITH HIS
FELLOW PILOTS, THE CABIN CREW, DISPATCH, AND AFW TECH ON WHAT
THE NOISE COULD HAVE BEEN. BASED ON HIS DISCUSSIONS WITH 
DISPATCH AND AFW TECH ALONG WITH THE FACT THERE WERE NO LIGHTS,
SYSTEM ABNORMALITIES OR FURTHER NOISES OR VIBRATIONS PRESENT,
THE CAPTAIN DECIDED TO CONTINUE TO CDG BELIEVING THE NOISE 
MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CARGO CONTAINER SHIFT. GIVEN THAT THE A/C WAS
100,000 LBS OVERWEIGHT FOR LANDING AT DFW, HE CONTINUED THE  
FLIGHT KNOWING THAT IF ANYTHING RECURRED THEY COULD LAND BEFORE

ENTERING THE OCEANIC PORTION OF THE FLIGHT. THE CAPTAIN ALSO 
HAD THE OFF-DUTY PILOTS MONITORING THE CABIN THROUGHOUT THE  
FLIGHT FOR ANY NOISES OR UNUSUAL VIBRATIONS, NONE WERE HEARD OR
FELT. THE CAPTAIN ALSO MONITORED FUEL BURN AND IT WAS NORMAL. 

UPON LANDING IN CDG, GROUND PERSONNEL INFORMED THE CREW THAT A
LARGE PANEL, THE LEFT HAND PACK ACCESS PANEL, WAS MISSING ON 
THE UNDERSIDE OF THE AIRPLANE. PICTURES OF THIS MISSING PANEL 
HAVE BEEN CIRCULATING ALONG WITH SOME CRITICISM OF THE CAPTAIN 
FOR NOT RETURNING TO DFW. THE FACTS OF THE MATTER ARE THAT THIS
CAPTAIN DID EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT OUR CAPTAINS TO DO. HE DID NOT
MAKE THIS DECISION IN A VACUUM; HE CONSULTED WITH HIS FELLOW 
CREWMEMBERS ON THE PLANE AND WITH SUPPORT STAFF ON THE GROUND.
THERE WAS NO WAY THIS CREW COULD HAVE KNOWN THIS PANEL HAD   
DEPARTED THE A/C. IF THEY HAD KNOWN, THEY OBVIOUSLY WOULD HAVE
RETURNED. WHILE THE PICTURES ARE VERY DRAMATIC, THE A/C AND 
PASSENGERS WERE NEVER IN ANY DANGER FROM THE MISSING PANEL.
GIVEN THE INFORMATION THE CAPTAIN HAD TO WORK WITH, WE FEEL  
THIS CAPTAIN MADE A SOUND, INFORMED DECISION TO CONTINUE THE 
FLIGHT.  
.
CA JIM KAISER - MGR FLT OPS QUALITY CONTROL    
CA CHUCK HARMAN - 757/767 FLEET CAPTAIN


06MAY08/1217

Wanttoflywithease

something else to worry about

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Posts: 76

(05/13/08 18:58:20)

Hello, I was reading this post, and honestly it makes me worry of something else happening when I fly.

I am flying next week, so this is increasing my already difficult anxiety.

The part that bothers me is in the email that Capn Steve posted, where AA is stating that the pilot had no idea that the AC panel had flown off....but above, Capt Tom posted that pilots monitor everything on the plane all the time....so how did he have "no idea???!!" And then the email says that the pilot would have landed if he had known the panel was gone.....ughhh.

I know that in this case it was not dangerous, but that just shows me that something can happen to the plane (dangerous or not) and the pilots may not know.

This is one of my big areas of worry and giving up control - that I am afraid that something will happen to the airplane that the pilots will now know about. Sometimes I feel I have to pay attention to all the sounds on flights I go on because what if there is a sound in the cabin that the FAs and pilots do not hear...and I need to make sure I ask them about it....

Please help!!! I am in uber-stress mode - and I have done the SOAR program, cassette, dvd, and audio.

Thank you, I appreciate the information and support!!!!

Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW

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Posts: 2239

(05/14/08 18:31:03)

Don't really understand why this continues to bother you. There are no instruments to tell that a panel is missing. Why? Because it doesn't matter. If it mattered, there would be an instrument.

Planes are built so that they fly just fine without access panels. It really isn't significant. And, as to why the pilot said he would land IF he knew a panel was missing . . . I don't know why he said that, and I'm not at all sure that he did.

Think about it. Does it matter if you don't close the little door that covers the area where you put gas in your car? If you drive with it open, it hurts nothing. The only difference is that with a plane, the air rips off the door if left partly open, while on your car, the air may just shut the door for you.

Really, don't give it a second thought. It doesn't matter.

Wanttoflywithease

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Posts: 79

(05/17/08 14:40:43)

Thanks for the reply Capt. Tom. So what you're saying is that anything that is vital to the airplane's functionality has some sort of sensor so that the pilots can know if anything is wrong? And that if there is not a sensor to a certain part of the plane, that means it is not important enough to have a sensor on it?

Thanks!

Wanttoflywithease

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Posts: 82

(05/20/08 14:22:30)

Any reply or info from the Capts?

Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW

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Posts: 2246

(05/20/08 14:25:57)

Yes. Anything we need info one we have info on.

Capn Steve

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Posts: 486

(05/23/08 18:15:02)

Hi Wanttofly --

Yes, that's correct. If we really need to know about something, we'll have some sort of instrument indication.

This AA DFW-CDG thing was a bit unusual, to say the least. I can see how it would be disconcerting to Fearful Fliers, or, for that matter to any other fliers.

But it only proves that airplanes CAN experience malfunctions and still fly safely. None of us, upon departing, would ever expect an air conditioning pack access door to be separated from the airplane. But it did, with no adverse consequences.

I guess my point in all this is -- even if something goes wrong mechanically, the airplane is still quite capable of landing safely.

So -- FFs -- I know that your imaginations are very active, and that you are all very intelligent. And that you can conjure up doomsday scenarios that I would never think

But -- realize that. It's purely imagination. Most of what you may dread will never come to pass.

Cheers.

Steve

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Why am I Freaking for Nothing?????

Why am I Freaking for Nothing?????