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 sunsfan |
US Airways Pilots pressured to cut fuel |
Lead | |
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Posts: 60 (07/16/08 19:01:14) |
I'm just wondering what Capt Steve, Tom and others thought about this article. I heard that Jet Blue and Southwest locked in an a oil price per barrel to
avoid the side costs most airlines are charging for now.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080716/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/pilots_fuel |
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jackbean |
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Posts: 3 (07/17/08 05:41:35) |
I would like to add to this too and would love to hear what the pilots think...last night on Larry King, they had a panel of travel professionals, including a
former capt from Continental. Everyone agreed that no pilot is going to fly without an unsafe amount of fuel - it just wont happen. But the Capt did say what
will cause "incidents" is that air traffic controllers will want to get the planes on the ground faster b/c of the fuel situation and therefore will
be using intersecting runways, etc. Coming from a former pilot, it was very scary to hear. You hear of "near misses" anyway, but will that increase
b/c of the controllers trying to get the planes on the ground faster? Capt Tom or Capt Steve, what is your take on that? thank you.
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Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW |
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Posts: 2304 (07/17/08 07:58:52) |
I agree that no pilot is going to fly with an unsafe amount of fuel IF the pilot doesn't have to choose between what management wants and paying the
mortgage next month. Airline management DOES pressure pilots to do things to save money. Sometimes management is right; sometimes not right. But without a
union which is as formidable as management is, pilots have to cave in against their better judgment.
What you see in the media is the US Air pilots going public on the subtle threats that -- you may not be fired -- but we have OTHER methods, such as "extra training" or failing your next check in the simulator. This is why, in this financial environment, if you want a pilot who can stand up and make the right decision, you want a pilot who has a STRONG union backing him or her. Otherwise you have a "bean counter" making decisions about your safety. The "near miss" thing is similar. The air traffic controllers usually get ignored by the FAA, but so much political heat has been put on the FAA, that they are vulnerable and sensitive. So the controllers -- like the US Air pilots -- went public. And guess what: the FAA caved in and changed the procedures. |
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jackbean |
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Posts: 4 (07/17/08 10:26:23) |
Thanks Capt Tom. What does this mean, then - are air traffic controllers keeping us safe? Are "near misses" going to be more and more prevelant? And
how do we know what pilots for which airlines have strong unions backing them?
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Capn Steve |
Fuel | ||
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Posts: 499 (07/17/08 16:25:56) |
A few years ago, AA started a "fuel policy" of planning flights in good weather to arrive at their destinations with 70 minutes of fuel remaining.
(Even the bean-counters and management sycophants apparently couldn't stomach the legally-allowed 45-minute minimum. Thank God.)
I'm more comfortable with 90 minutes. But, being the Team Player that I always am (said with a hint of sarcasm), I'll -- sometimes -- settle for 80 minutes. If my flight is planned to arrive with less than that, I'll request more fuel. And -- I always get it. Rarely do I get any flak from the Dispatcher. And if I do, I'll stand firm and insist. After all, I'M the one up there flying the airplane, not sitting down at a desk in front of a computer screen. (And -- last I knew, the Federal Aviation Regulations still charge the Captain with being the Final Authority regarding the operation of the airplane.) (I think that many Dispatchers, who along with the Captain have some legal responsibility for the safety of the flight, probably breathe a sigh of relief when a Captain requests additional fuel. The Dispatchers sometimes have Management-types breathing down their necks and critiquing their moves; e.g., putting extra fuel on. But when a Captain requests the extra fuel, that puts the whole thing into a different light.) Now, 45 minutes or 60 minutes or 70 minutes of fuel-over-destination may sound like quite a bit. But, throw in an unexpected hold, or a re-route, or a go-around, or a mechanical problem (perhaps with the landing gear or flaps) that may require additional time in the air, and that seemingly-comfortable margin will evaporate quickly, and the flight may be declaring a fuel emergency. Or diverting to another airport. I read the comment by the USAirways spokesman that requiring the Captains who requested additional fuel to come in for "extra training" was "not punitive." Horse Shit it wasn't punitive. Why else did USAirways do that? It was clearly intended to be intimidating -- and punitive. I hope ALPA at USAirways can prevail. Bottom line -- it's your flight crew who is looking out for you. Not the management of the airline. Cheers. Steve |
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optize |
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Posts: 11 (07/18/08 19:39:08) |
I don't know what the big deal is. If they add extra fuel to be safe, it's not like they lost that fuel, they will re-use it for the next flight so why
wouldn't they put the extra fuel in the plane, regardless? Or am I missing something...?
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Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW |
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Posts: 2310 (07/18/08 21:35:05) |
The heavier the plane, the more power it takes to fly. The more power it takes, the more fuel is burned. It might be ten gallons for a short flight, or fifty
gallons for a long flight.
So, when one-hundred extra gallons are loaded on the plane, some of that one-hundred gallons will have been burned by the engines by the time the flight arrives at the destination. |
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Capn Steve |
Fuel, etc. | ||
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Posts: 503 (07/20/08 15:08:04) |
Of course, Capt. Tom, and even the "bean-counters," are correct. The heavier the airplane is, the more fuel is consumed. As the ancient adage goes --
"It costs fuel to carry fuel."
No argument here. It's merely a law of physics and aerodynamics. So - when I request an extra, say, 2000 pounds of fuel from the Dispatcher (approximately 20 minutes of flying time in the MD-80), due to the aforementioned effect, I may have, effectively, about 1800 pounds (about 18 minutes) more fuel. Since, it may require an additional 200 pounds to carry the fuel I have requested. Still, that extra 1800 pounds may mean the difference between having to divert to another airport (which is ridiculous in good weather, I think) or landing at the intended destination. And - it may help to ensure my personal peace of mind. (Important to me, if not the bean-counters, who frankly, probably couldn't care less.) Cheers. Steve |
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Note from Capt. Tom I know everyone worries about weather, but pilots really do not worry about it. We simply - instead of worrying about it - completely prepare for it. Before going to the plane, we review the weather at the destination. If it is not 100% sure to be within legal limits when we arrive at the destination, we must specify an alternate airport in our planning documents, and load on plenty of fuel for going to the destination airport, and then if need be, diverting to the alternate airport. The legal limits are conservative. Even when weather is slightly outside the legal limits, any airline pilot could still land safely. You can rely on the captain never to land when the weather is not legal, and legality limits are reached prior to safety limits. If you are still anxious, call me and we can talk it over. I'm at 877 332-7359 from 10 AM until 7 PM Eastern time. For effective help, even if you are flying in a day or two, sign up now at www.fearofflying.com/fasttrack and call me when you finish Clip 9 so I can make sure you are all set. |
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Using Weather Information If you enter your ZIP Code or City at the top of the weather presentation, it will give you weather for your area. Or, you can enter your destination ZIP Code or City.
Click on the "LOCAL RADAR" button to see whether or not there are thunder- Turbulence, though it may cause anxiety, does not mean anything is wrong. Turbulence does not mean danger. The plane can handle far more turbulence than Mother Nature can dish out. Though flying in turbulence is safe, it doesn't feel safe. And here is where the SOAR programs come in. We can help you feel as safe when you fly as you actually are. You can see these programs at www.fearofflying.com/store. |
