Hi, I am new to the board and I haven't flown in 10 years. Basically, I don't want to die in an airplane. I understand that we don't choose our
death and I understand airplane stats, but I can make those stats 100% by never flying. My problem is I have family that want me to fly and I don't want
to, but I do think about it. I guess I have a number of concerns, but my biggest is structural failure. One thing I know about cars for sure is that they
don't just come apart at the seems do to stress fractures do to metal fatigue, but I know that air planes do. I also know that if something like a wheel
can come off a car or a truck, but there is still a chance for survival. There is a chance for escape. I know that when you fly, there is 0 margin for error.
If you are flying and at that moment a microscopic stress fracture in tail comes to pass you are cooked. You can't land a plane without a tail. What if one
of the flaps was to have a failure...again cooked. You can't pull over to the side of the road to fix it. You are just done. I can't image a worse
death then plummeting to the earth at over 500 miles an hour and you are fully aware of your impeding doom. I can deal with a my car skidding of the road on
some black ice at 120 km an hour and hitting a tree or a pole. 2 to 5 seconds of terror and then it is over you are gone. An airplane has time to crash. From
35000 feet my guess is you have at least 45 seconds of kissing your life good by and that 45 seconds is enough for me. A few years back there was a Japanese
airliner that lost either all hydraulic motion or the tail came off. I don't remember, but it isn't important. What is important is the people inside
the doomed plane were alive long enough to write letters to loved ones as the plane went down. It took some time before it crashed. No other death could be
like that. I know there has never been a car wreck that crashed for over 20 minutes. A car crashes and within seconds it is over. Your either dead or seriously
injured or you walk away, but you don't experience terror that lasts for minutes. I am not afraid of a plane blowing up. If it was to blow up in mid air so
be it...your just dead...you don't even see it coming, but that is not the norm. Most often when there is a crash, the people on board are fully aware of
what is happening to them and there is nothing they can do about it. The passengers on board most often have to experience unspeakable terror as the pilot
attempts and emergency landing and some times they are successful, but again the people on board still have to experience that nightmare. I don't think
there is anything anyone could say to me or do to my pattern of thinking to explain away or rationalize my feelings about this since I don't want to die in
that fashion and never setting foot in airplane makes that possible. I know that airplanes are full of back up systems, but there is no back up for major
structural failure only a horrible death. I would rather bleed to death with a metal pole in my side before experiencing the moments before a plane crash. It
is the most unique death of all.
 |
 |
0 Kudos
Structural Failure
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
 kramerica |
Structural Failure |
Lead | |
|
Posts: 1 (08/09/09 07:49:45) |
|
||
|
OneAnt |
|||
|
Posts: 872 (08/09/09 13:15:21) |
Everything you do in life has an inherent risk, some far higher risk than others (driving vs flying, for example). US Vehicle Deaths in 2008
US Commercial Aviation Deaths 2008
If you're dead set (pun intended) on staying out of all manner of aircraft because of the ridiculously slim possibility that you might die in a terrifying manner, don't fly...ever. You're right: your chances of dying in an air disaster are 0% if you never fly. But you're going to miss out on a lot in life. Personally, I'm okay with .00001%. All that aside, based on your post, I can't tell what you're after here. What is it you expect to get, or find, or understand, as a result of visiting the board? |
||
|
Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW |
What this is about | ||
|
Posts: 2666 (08/09/09 14:28:48) |
When there is diffiiculty regulating anxiety about what will happen, people feel better when they Are in control or have a way to escape. Though you do not
have either when you fly you ARE safer regardless of how you feel. Really, you need to understand that what you feel and what is fact are not the sAme thing
|
||
|
kramerica |
What it is all about for me... | ||
|
Posts: 2 (08/09/09 15:48:55) |
I understand that the odds of the plane going down might be 0.00001 of a percent. What I can not get past are lack of options in the mi-mute chance that
something did go wrong structurally. I guess I need to wait for the day when they come up with a back up system for structural failure or some kind of last
resort eg: parachute even though I know that a parachute for a commercial aircraft is an impossibility. My guess is I will be long dead before something like
that comes along. I am completely fine when it comes to things like engine failure or even hydraulic failure as there are back up systems in place to at least
give you a fighting chance, but without a redundant system in place for structural failure I just don't think it is worth it.It isn't risk it is the
experience one would have in plummeting out of control to your death from 35000 feet. I risk my life every day crossing the street, but as I said earlier death
by airplane crash is a very unique death unlike any other in the world as in most cases it is not instant. I can deal with instant or at least close to it. I
read and heard many new articles that talk about the commercial jet that ran out of fuel and glided for many miles to safety or the Hawaiian jet years ago that
blew open and landed safely. I have never heard of an aircraft loosing a tail or part of wing being able to land safely; it just isn't possible.
|
||
|
Capn Steve |
|||
|
Posts: 616 (08/09/09 18:42:03) |
Kramerica --
It's hard to know just where to begin here. WHY are you so obsessed with "structural failure?" It virtually never happens. Have you been watching too many B-movies, or what? (I'm not trying to sound unkind here, but what you are conjuring up is totally out in left field.) WHY do you think that a "microscopic stress fracture," upon developing in flight, would mean the sudden destruction of the airplane? In fact, if you were to go on a preflight walk-around inspection with a pilot or a mechanic, you would see numerous stress fractures that had already formed. These are well-understood, and accounting for them has been built into the system. During each major inspection, the fractures that have developed are closely looked at. If they are deemed sufficiently serious to require repair, well, then, they are. If they are within tolerances for flight, they may or may not be fixed, depending on the workload at the maintenance facility. In NO case will an airplane be dispatched for flight if it's in an unsafe condition. <<I don't think there is anything anyone could say to me or do to my pattern of thinking to explain away or rationalize my feelings about this since I don't want to die in that fashion and never setting foot in airplane makes that possible>> Well, then, as has already been asked, what is your motive for posting here? This site is for people who want help, and you indicate that your mind is already made up, and that you can never even BE helped. But -- help IS available, should you wish to pursue it. Please think about it. You can rid yourself of this syndrome. Cheers. Steve |
||
|
kramerica |
Structural Failure has Happened | ||
|
Posts: 3 (08/11/09 15:51:44) |
Actually structural failure has happened a few times in the past. Most recently with the jet that flew out of New York and lost its engine and tail I believe.
All on board died. They have yet to solve the problem with redundant systems and I suspect they never will. I guess I came here looking for some kind of
undisclosed solution to that enormous problem. It was my fault thinking that there was. Thanks for your time.
|
||
|
OneAnt |
|||
|
Posts: 873 (08/11/09 22:08:10) |
"Enormous problem?" Hardly.
|
||
|
Liv |
|||
|
Posts: 14 (08/12/09 01:13:52) |
He told you there was a solution if you wanted to be helped.
|
||
|
Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW |
|||
|
Posts: 2670 (08/12/09 06:55:36) |
If you want to know about the structural failure of the A-300 in November of 2001, we can discuss the cause and what was done to make sure it doesn't
happen again.
Do you want to or not? |
||
|
kramerica |
I thought the Cause Was... | ||
|
Posts: 4 (08/12/09 15:42:15) |
Hi I would be interested in your assessment of what went wrong. From what I know, the aircraft took off and flew into some wake turbulence which caused the
plane to lose control. The pilot then tried to compensate or fight the turbulence in such a way as to cause more harm than good. The tail and several other
components of the aircraft were not built to withstand that kind of stress and fractured under the pressure. This stress caused the tail and I believe the
right engine to break off and the plane plumeted to the ground out of control. From what I have read, that aircraft is the type that flies by wire and was
equiped with plenty of safe guards to prevent that from happening, but the pilot went against one of those safe guards when he pushed heavily on the stick. He
was fighting the computer in a way. As I understand it, they blamed all of it on pilot error because they said that if the pilot hadn't faught the
turbulence and just ran it out, all would have been fine. They now apparently tell pilots not to do that and they are supposed to train them against that, but
if this guy did it...how do I know that the next guy won't. I also don't believe those parts should have cracked under pressure. I have seen airplane
wings stretched to the point where they are vertical and they don't break, the rest of the plane should be built just as tough. An accident like that one
in my mind is completely unacceptable. Is my take on this correct. What else has the airline done to prevent this from happening?
|
||
|
OneAnt |
|||
|
Posts: 874 (08/13/09 07:53:49) |
In my laymans opinion, I don't think you're capable of being helped.
You need to 1) admit that there is an inherent risk in everything you do in life, and then 2)accept that risk. If you're incapable of doing the latter when it comes to air travel, regardless of how small that risk is, then nothing anyone can say or do is going to help you fly again. Ask yourself this: Do you want to fly again? If the answer is "Yes," Capt Tom and SOAR can help you. If the answer is "Yes, but," well, there can be no "but." You don't get to fly under your own terms. You either accept the terms as they exist, or you don't fly. |
||
|
kramerica |
You're Right | ||
|
Posts: 5 (08/13/09 10:58:23) |
Hi, thanks for your comment. I believe you are correct. I have been thinking about this for a long long time. There is a risk in everything we do and it is up
to us as individuals to either except it and move along or to choose another route. I think I have finally come to relies that flying isn't for me and I am
fine with that. I just wish the rest of my family could accept it. For the first time in 10 years I can honestly say that I will not fly ever again. Thanks for
your comments. This board has helped me at least to come to that conclusion.
|
||
|
OneAnt |
|||
|
Posts: 876 (08/13/09 11:22:13) |
Why should your family accept your irrational fear? It's not like you're telling them that you don't want broccoli anymore because you just
don't like it. You're telling them that you won't fly because of the small, tiny, miniscule fraction of a percent chance that something might
happen.
You remind of the people who say that they don't wear seatbelts because they read about one or two times where someone actually survived a car crash because they weren't wearing one. Good luck with everything. The way I see it, you not flying means one less person to clog up the security lines. |
||
|
Liv |
|||
|
Posts: 16 (08/13/09 11:25:24) |
I never thought i'd come across someone *that* closed minded. You're admitting you have a problem, what usually comes with that is acceptance of help.
Yet, not this time. I'm with OneAnt.
|
||
|
Capt Tom Bunn MSW LCSW |
|||
|
Posts: 2672 (08/13/09 11:39:34) |
It is all about control. When a person does not have the inner resources to calm anxieties, then anything and everything that might cause anxiety has to be
controlled. The problem is, if a person can only deal with what can be absolutely controlled, it places massive limits on life.
A case in point is Howard Hughes, who manufactured airplanes and owned TWA at one time. Over the years, he became more and more obsessed with control, and this grew until he could only deal with what he could personally control. He retreated to live in a room which was sealed so no even air could enter. Because he was so obsessed with control, he almost bankrupted TWA, and he lost control of the company. When control becomes so vital to the person, reality has to be bent to conform to the person. In psychology, there are two terms: autoplastic and alloplastic. In the autoplastic orientation, a person adjusts to reality. In the alloplastic orientation, reality is rejected and has to be - at least in the person's own mind - changed to fit his ideas. What you see in this threat is an extreme case of alloplastic orientation; reality is no damn good unless it fits MY view. This is the ultimate in trying to get relief from anxiety through control. |
||
|
Stefan |
|||
|
Posts: 36 (08/14/09 15:17:52) |
kramerica --
Read with interest this thread. In particular your views and the deductions you made out of the replies to you. I'm not a therapist but a technical educated guy. Even not for the emotional part of your reasoning, your logic is called in mathematical terms "non sequitur logic": your premise and conclusion are totally unrelated but you make them seem if they were. To start with, your basis is shacky already: the proof of a conclusion depends on both the truth of the premises and the validity of the argument. Wish for you, your family will be able to make you realize that. It is then up to you to take action based on correct logic and get help.
Last Edited By: Stefan
08/14/09 15:37:32.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
|
Note from Capt. Tom I know everyone worries about weather, but pilots really do not worry about it. We simply - instead of worrying about it - completely prepare for it. Before going to the plane, we review the weather at the destination. If it is not 100% sure to be within legal limits when we arrive at the destination, we must specify an alternate airport in our planning documents, and load on plenty of fuel for going to the destination airport, and then if need be, diverting to the alternate airport. The legal limits are conservative. Even when weather is slightly outside the legal limits, any airline pilot could still land safely. You can rely on the captain never to land when the weather is not legal, and legality limits are reached prior to safety limits. If you are still anxious, call me and we can talk it over. I'm at 877 332-7359 from 10 AM until 7 PM Eastern time. For effective help, even if you are flying in a day or two, sign up now at www.fearofflying.com/fasttrack and call me when you finish Clip 9 so I can make sure you are all set. |
|
Using Weather Information If you enter your ZIP Code or City at the top of the weather presentation, it will give you weather for your area. Or, you can enter your destination ZIP Code or City.
Click on the "LOCAL RADAR" button to see whether or not there are thunder- Turbulence, though it may cause anxiety, does not mean anything is wrong. Turbulence does not mean danger. The plane can handle far more turbulence than Mother Nature can dish out. Though flying in turbulence is safe, it doesn't feel safe. And here is where the SOAR programs come in. We can help you feel as safe when you fly as you actually are. You can see these programs at www.fearofflying.com/store. |
